wordweaverlynn: NANOWRIMO: Does It Kill Young Writers?

Stone of stumbling and rock of offense (

wordweaverlynn) wrote,
@ 2004-10-29 23:47:00

Current mood:	productive
Current music:	Beatles, "Paperback Writer"

NANOWRIMO: Does It Kill Young Writers?
Several people on my friendslist have linked to this essay on how (not) to be a writer. I've answered the author in her LJ, and now I'm bringing the discussion over here by reposting what I said to her.

Many of the points she made are excellent, and I agree with almost all of them. Read. Write. Finish. Edit. Submit. Know the business.

But I'm a professional writer with a number of published books to my credit, and I love doing NaNo. Trust me, grad school is *worse*. If getting an MA in Creative Writing couldn't discourage me, nothing can. (For the record, I'd already published two books when I went to grad school.)

I found my local writers' group through NaNo. They're great people. We meet year-round, encourage each other, share the little writing victories. One member just made her first sale; layer is a writer of serious literary fiction, as well as a sort of uber-Municipal Liaison who works closely with Chris Baty. Several of the others keep sending out stories. junglemonkee just won a prize at a writers' conference -- and she's about to send out her finished novel to the agents she met there. (It's also superb.) feralboy2 and kr8vkat have published stories (fiction and nonfiction) since we all started writing together. Several others, including mortaine, are damned good. And those are just my local writers' group.

NaNo has helped me get past that nasty internal critic that says a hundred pages in, "Read this shit? No thanks, I'd rather pry out my eyeballs with a paper knife." Once the first dreadful draft is down, I can polish it into perfection. I'm still doing serious work on the two previous projects, and I'm very excited about my idea for this one.

Sure, it's not for everyone. I can see how someone might burn out doing it. But it can be a memorable experience, and for some of us, it has led to good writing.

Have you done NaNo? Planning to do it this year? Does it do more good or harm to writers?

(Post a new comment)

red_frog
2004-10-29 11:53 pm UTC (link)

Never have, and as long as I'm doing what I do for a living it's not likely that I will. I don't have more words in me.

Since I haven't done anything serious with fiction since the 5th grade (yes, really--J and I spent every recess working on our stories, and we actually finished three of reasonable length for our age) it would be nice to try sometime. My plot muscles have atrophied in favor of my essaying ones.

(Reply to this)

	phinnia 2004-10-30 12:07 am UTC (link)
	Might do it this year. I keep trying, but I have this bizarre curse in that I keep getting horrifyingly sick every November. So I'm not sure whether I should taunt fate or not. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	ranunculus 2004-11-06 01:07 pm UTC (link)
	This year I went in for tests, including for allergies. Much to my surprise I tested extremely positive for molds, which are very active in wet seasons... You might check and see if part of your "November problem" is actually allergy to mold or flower... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	spiderdust 2004-10-30 12:14 am UTC (link)
	I so want to do it this year... I have an idea for the novel, but worry that I won't figure out where to start. I'm a bit out of practice. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	mortaine 2004-10-30 08:31 am UTC (link)
	You should do it. If you can't figure out how to start by Day 3, you'll throw something on the page and keep going, just out of sheer terror! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	aberrantvirtue 2004-10-30 12:25 am UTC (link)
	NaNo gets me writing, and really that's the hard part. If I throw 20,000 unusable words down on a page, who cares, if it inspires me to write the 5-600 good ones on my "serious project". (Reply to this)

	firecat 2004-10-30 12:27 am UTC (link)
	I am signed up, but I plan to finish last year's novel rather than starting a new one, so it won't "officially" count. As for whether it does more good or harm to writers, that feels much the same to me as "what do women want?" (Reply to this) (Thread)

wild_irises
2004-10-31 04:56 am UTC (link)

I want to be

firecat when I grow up!

(and you know all this too; you were just stirring shit, she said warmly)

Some writers need writers' workshops; others shrivel at the thought. Some writers need deadlines; others can't write with time limitations looming over them. Some writers talk about their work incessantly to keep the well fresh; others can't say a word about a current project.

Etc., etc., etc.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	firecat 2004-10-31 05:53 am UTC (link)
	I want to be wild_irises when I grow up. Wouldn't that confuse our sweeties... (Reply to this) (Parent)

lkeele
2004-10-30 12:43 am UTC (link)

Never completed a nano, but here's why I think it's a great idea.

(1) It gets people who have never written anything to think that they can indeed write a novel -- and then they do.

(2) It gets writers who are in a lull (and who isn't) off their ass and makes them work, possibly creating work habits that will help them in the future (like writing every day, and saving editing for later), and maybe, just maybe, helping them cranking out something good.

I'm hoping for the second. Though of course, I would never rely on Nano exclusively to build my writing career!! I've been doing that very slowly over years.

(Reply to this)

a rant

recursive
2004-10-30 01:03 am UTC (link)

Putting aside the fact that I have trouble putting much stock in any advice which begins (seriously or not) from the perspective of trying to keep people from entering one's chosen field of endeavor in an attempt to maintain a revenue stream, I still have a couple major problems with this person's advice.

First, they don't make a clear distinction between art and business. This is not to say that you can focus on one and ignore the other in a field like this, but certainly there is great art, which at a certain point in time is completely unprofitable, and conversely, there is trash which makes truckloads of money.

Second, the idea that being creative and making art is a completely inscrutable matter. Now, certainly it cannot be mechanical either. But what really happens is neither entirely a mysterious result of innate talent, nor is it entirely a matter of stubborn effort. There is a matter of skill involved, and even talent, but to conclude that good writing is something so few people are able to do (just because they have not done it) is, as I see it, one manifestation of the "art is something that an elite subset of humanity are suited to do, others shouldn't even bother trying" attitude that I find repulsive.

(I'm contemplating whether to elaborate a bit and comment in the other person's journal to further buck the tide of groupthink. I'm tired at the moment and suspect I'm not being fully coherent.)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: a rant lkeele 2004-10-30 01:27 am UTC (link)
	Yes, I too was quite surprised at the relative lack of dissenting opinions in the comments section. Maybe most of the dissenters were like me, and were too disgusted to post (I too have a problem with trying to scare the competition away). (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: a rant red_frog 2004-10-30 11:20 am UTC (link)
	I read it. I make a living from my writing and have for more than a decade. I don't do NaNo, but I don't care what someone else does. My snarky thought was, "Sorry, dude, can't be troubled to give a long rebuttal to this. I have writing to do so that I can be better than my competition, instead of just scaring it off." (Reply to this) (Parent)

lilairen
2004-10-30 01:26 am UTC (link)

I think it depends on what sort of writer one is.

If one's a writer who has a "This is all shite, I should chuck it all and never touch a typewriter again" problem, then NaNo is one way of dealing with it, as its mode is "It doesn't matter if it's good, so long as you get the words out."

This is completely incompatible with my writing process, however; I am pretty much incapable of writing the next bit if the bit that's written is not correct. As a result, my first drafts tend to be very clean and very similar to final drafts, and I cannot generally get words down quickly. They have to be 95% the right words, minimum, so the 'go back and fix it later' mode of working just breaks me. I can't go back and fix it later, because if I don't fix it now, there is no next bit to write at all.

I suspect that it's likely to be damaging to people who have incompatible processes and don't know what their process is. On rasfc, we get a lot of people coming through wanting to know The Way To Write. They don't necessarily have an idea of the many, many different ways that different writers operate, the ways they need to function, the essentials of different people's processes; if someone with my basic process needs latches on to NaNo as The Way, they're going to fuck themselves up something fierce.

But those people who need to keep writing and are able to fix it in the revision, or throw it out and rewrite, or whatever other processes are compatible with the NaNo thing, they'll benefit.

More good? More harm? Mu.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

linenoise
2004-10-30 11:33 am UTC (link)

I seebling your statement. Because that's pretty much my process, too. I don't write fiction, really, but I had a big ole fight with my dad back in high school, when I was having a hell of a time passing English. He's a NaNo-type writer. Throw down large amounts of whatever, in continuous burst, and then clean up/edit later. He writes for a living (again, not fiction. Executive proposal stuff.) and he's told me he goes through as many as 20 drafts on a piece of writing. He doesn't even fix *typos* on the fly, just leaves them in to be corrected on the editing pass. Whereas 90% of the stuff that I write never even sees a *second* draft, and about half of it doesn't even get proofed. Because I edit on the fly, as I'm writing. If I've got something that needs to see a third draft, it's either a major term paper, or I did something seriously *wrong* in the planning stages.

His writing process is bi-modal. He's got a creative process and an editing process, and the two are completely incompatible. My process is singular. Most of my editing is done before the words ever reach the page (screen). 95% of the editing is done on the fly, as I write.

If I thought that NaNo was The Way, then I would be forced to consider myself Broken. Because it's incompatible.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

theodicy
2004-10-30 02:37 am UTC (link)

Well, I guess I would speak slightly off-point here, as someone who hasn't finished a fiction thang since, let's see, the Carter administration.

But I'm in the process of changing my Writ(h)ing Style from Must Be Perfect First Time to Write Shite, Polish Later. It's enormously hard to keep typing without switching on my editorial self. But my gut tells me that becoming less condemnatory in general is the only way to save myself from a rigid unhappy middle age as any sort of writer.

But that's just me.

NaNoWriMo would be a great idea if I had a novel I wanted written. Alas, maybe next year.

(Reply to this)

earthdog
2004-10-30 03:17 am UTC (link)

I know there are pros and would be pros out there doing this. I have nothing against them. I feel honored to be in a writing group with them. I want to stick up for us amatuers. For me it is the amatuers that make NaNoWriMo special. There are other reasons people do Nano then wanting to be a professional writter.

I feel that if we leave art to professionals then it becomes entertainment. I want common people to take back art. We should be encourging amatuerism. The root of amatuer comes from "lover of" . It is us amature writers who want to read the stuff pros want to get paid for.

It does not matter if it is not any good or not. I am doing this for truely selfish reasons. I am doing it because I get to meet cool people, sit around in coffee shops and write, push myself to do something I would otherwise never do.

I write so my head does not explode. I write because if I did not, I would drown in my own thoughts. I write because it makes me who I am. For these reasons and any others they can come up with, people should do Nano.

He might be right, many good writers might never be able to turn a Nano novel into a publishible novel. I do not agree that they should not do it at all. The more you write the better writer you become. Even if you write things that will never see the light of day, it still adds to your experences writing. I do not see that as a bad thing.

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	mortaine 2004-10-30 08:33 am UTC (link)
	For me it is the amatuers that make NaNoWriMo special. Here, here. Chris put it best at the TGIO party: Why should artists have all the fun? (Reply to this) (Parent)

yiskah
2004-10-30 03:40 am UTC (link)

I'm doing NaNoWriMo this year, and I'm always extremely wary of those people who are passionately against NaNoWriMo - OK, so it doesn't work for you, but guess what? People write differently.

Aside from the whole issue of freeing up the internal editor (which was a big one for me), the fact is that, for all those Flaubert-like 5-words-a-day types, there are some people who write best fast, and I am one of them. The first three chapters of the novel that I'm currently sending out are virtually unchanged from my 2002 NaNoWriMo attempt, and I have just received some glowing feedback from a major publisher on them. I respect the fact that many people need to carefully consider each word and each sentence, but I write instinctually, and every minute I'm sitting there thinking ''trembling'? no - is she 'quivering'? no, no wait - 'shuddering'?' is time well and truly wasted, because almost invariably the first word that came into my head was the best one.

So while there is a lot to be said for the 'write 50,000 words of crap and edit later' approach, there's also the fact that sometimes it's not crap. (Please note: I'm not saying that I'm a better writer than someone who produces crap in NaNoWriMo; I'm just saying that the NaNoWriMo method works very well for me.)

(Reply to this)

	elynne 2004-10-30 05:25 am UTC (link)
	I'll be doing it. What's your handle on the site (or do you have one)? (oops, I need to put mine in my NaNoWriMo post) (Reply to this)

	writer_lilies 2004-10-30 06:55 am UTC (link)
	Meh. I'm burning out trying to rewrite my crap over and over again. I've been working on the same story for ten bloody years! This could be my dream come true. (Reply to this)

mortaine
2004-10-30 08:40 am UTC (link)

I an so surprised that guy hasn't received any (or maybe he's screened them) "you suck" comments.

I post one dissenting opinion in a crafting community and get called an idiot,but this guy can insult tens of thousands of would-be novelists, and it's not even clear if his tone is joking or not....

*sigh*

Doing NaNo this year. Hope to finish editing last year's sometime this winter and start sending it out. March 1 is my goal date for that.

(Reply to this)

firinel
2004-10-30 09:13 am UTC (link)

I've participated in but never finished NaNo. Historically speaking mid-October through late November is a very horrid month for me healthwise. One year I even took this into consideration, bought a dictaphone, and arranged someone else to type up the bits of story I'd dictated-- I still didn't manage. I've berated myself everytime I didn't finish, though, so I've learned that it's not for me to do in this frame of mine, and that I won't attempt it this year.

I think whether or not it does more good or harm to writers depends on the kind of writer, and the frame of mind of the writer.

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	marnanel 2004-10-30 09:24 am UTC (link)
	Most of those are reasons why I fear I'll never get published after all. I'm pushing thirty and I haven't really finished a novel; I should give up the whole idea but somehow I can't. I won't be doing Nano this year. Something always comes up in the first week of November to spoil it; besides, as they said, 50,000 isn't really a novel. (Reply to this)

stepping on the soap box

layer
2004-10-30 09:37 am UTC (link)

obviously, i'm a believer. i'd like to say i'd never have written a novel without nano, but it's a lie. i wrote my first novel years before, in under 8 months despite being in grad school and working full time. i will say that my nano drafts are no worse than that first one. in fact, i'd say they're much better, because i was finally able to get out of my own way and let the story flow. without nano i might have written these books. i might have written other books. would they have been better? doubt it. but most importantly, they probably would never have been finished.

sure 50K is short for a book, but it's a start. and the person bashing it fails to take into account that very few people hit 50K then write "the end." most wind up with half-again as many words or more. but nano gives them the kick-start to get there.

but again, i don't think that's really the point. what nano gives us is way more important than an excuse to produce. it gives us a community of like-minded people who support each other. sure there are writers groups, sure there is graduate school (the anti-nano), but not everyone has access to these things. what makes nano beautiful (and frighteningly threatening) is its grass roots approach to art. the idea that *anyone* can be a novelist is one many novelists (and even more so, wanna-be novelists) can't stomach.

and as for the work that comes out of nano, it really depends on what the writer puts in. the vast majority of writers will crank out 50k worth of crap just for the joy of it, none of which will (thankfully) ever see the light of day. but there are those of us who use this venue as a stepping stone to where we want to get with our writing, and no one is ever going to convince me that it isn't a) valid or b) valuable.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: stepping on the soap box

kr8vkat
2004-10-30 11:22 am UTC (link)

Hear, hear! I might have written a novel without NaNo, I might even have finished it, but I can't say that for certain. What I can say is that Nano, and the friends I made, gave me the push and the courage I needed to get it done, and get it done in a timely manner.

The guy who wrote the original article has obviously never participated in NaNo. I would have a lot more respect for his dissenting opinion if he had; as it is, I have none. I notice from the bio on his website that he was in San Francisco during last year's NaNo. I wonder if his opinion would be different if he'd actually attended something, seen what it was about, felt the energy? Maybe not.

As so many have stated, NaNo isn't for everyone. But that is no reason to discourage people from participating!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: stepping on the soap box

rezendi
2004-10-30 03:12 pm UTC (link)

what makes nano beautiful (and frighteningly threatening) is its grass roots approach to art. the idea that *anyone* can be a novelist is one many novelists (and even more so, wanna-be novelists) can't stomach.

I applaud the sentiment. I really do. (er, the tongue-in-cheek-ness of my "help me, I'm terrified!" tone was obvious, right? it's clear I was not actually trying to discourage anyone from writing, right?) If it was NaNoWriTwoMo, I'd be cheering. But 50 kilowords in a month is too much, too fast, for almost anyone who's also studying or working a day job.

(Especially if they're not already writing regularly. Careening from one extreme to the other is rarely the answer.)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: stepping on the soap box

layer
2004-10-30 03:36 pm UTC (link)

yes, it was obvious. :)

and as for what's too much, i believe that varies from person to person. as for me, i've finished every time usually with a couple of days to spare. i also have a very high stress full-time+ day job, freelance, plus i work and volunteer for nano september through december. on the off-season, i revise the work i did in november, write short stories and poetry and submit. and i am not the only one in our group to do so.

so yeah, all i'm saying is just because it feels like too much for you (though i doubt it is) you'd be surprised. two hours of writing a day is hardly going to kill anyone and in many, many cases it's just the kick in the pants people (and their self-esteem) needs to become serious about their writing.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

pantryslut
2004-10-30 05:53 pm UTC (link)

I like having a Real Life, and do not intend to turn it off for November. Also, NaNoWriMo conflicts strongly with my general style and working manner, which is slow but steady. it's perfect for someone like

imnotandrei, who just needs an excuse to sit in the chair, turn off the critical voices in his head, and write. But it's not a good fit for me.

Like others, I can see it as potentially damaging to people who don't know what their process it, should it turn out that their process is incompatible with NaNoWriMo. But so?

I do admit that I get tired of having to explain to adrenaline-pumped writer-proselytizers why I'm not at all interested in trying it.

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crossfire_
2004-10-31 02:36 pm UTC (link)

I couldn't make it past the second paragraph of that post, but I did skim through the rest to see if it suddenly became something other than "But *snivel* I don't want *whine* more competition!"

Funny thing, it didn't.

I'm doing NaNoWriMo for the first time this year. November is a terrible month for me to do this, since it's full of other time-sucking things like holidays and birthdays, but I'm going to try it anyway.

(Reply to this)

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